Inside SFPS
Inside SFPS
Episode 7: Standards Raise the Equity for All Students (feat. Vanessa Romero)
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On this episode of Inside SFPS, we throw a bit of a changeup and switch the format a tiny bit!
We sat down with Deputy Superintendent Vanessa Romero to talk about the transition to Standards-Based Teaching & Learning at SFPS! She explains what Standards-Based Teaching & Learning is, what changes we expect to see with our students and teachers, what parents might expect and as always, much more!
We reference a video called "Standards-Based Learning at SFPS" a few times in the episode, so here is a link if you would like to check it out!
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Welcome back to another episode of Inside SFPS. My name is Cody Dinarski, Public Information Officer with Santa Fe Public Schools, and today I am joined with one of my favorite people in the district, Deputy Superintendent Vanessa Romero. Ms. Romero, how are you today?
SPEAKER_01Good. How are you?
SPEAKER_00I'm great. I am really excited about this episode. This episode's going to be a little bit different. Um, normally we go into your background and your teaching experience and everything else that's kind of brought you to where you are today. But we are going to transition a little bit and we're going to talk about standards-based teaching and learning. We're coming up onto the end of this school year and starting in the next school year, the 22-23 school year, we have probably 12 to 15 schools, I think if I remember correctly, that will be transitioning to standards-based teaching and learning. And so for some of our listeners who might not know what standards-based teaching and learning is, can you just give a kind of a synopsis or what is standards-based teaching and learning?
SPEAKER_01So standards-based teaching and learning is a focus solely on the standards and teachers identifying core skills that students should be focused on with this idea that there's ownership from students in their learning. And so it's identifying standards, making assessments and rubrics solely based on the standard. And the idea is that we're providing actionable feedback regarding their learning in a more timely and accurate way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. So we'll break it back down, we'll break it down in even a smaller bit.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00What is a standard? Because for us that are in the education field, you know, we throw around standards and we know the standards, and especially, you know, you were a teacher, you know, all a lot of people in the district were teachers. Sure. What is a standard so parents and families can understand what a standard even means?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. So we've always had standards in every content area. It's uh focused skills that teachers need to focus on at each grade level. And so we have what's called the common core state standards, and that's what we follow here in New Mexico. And with that, at each grade level, for every content, reading, math, science, social studies, teachers are given these particular standards. The thing is, for example, in ELA or English language arts, there's probably over 90 standards. And what we've done is identified priority standards, high-leverage standards at every single grade level for teachers to focus on. It does not mean that they're not teaching other skills and standards that are necessary, but we feel like if we choose high-leverage standards and we really understand them, our kids will have a better understanding of what they're learning.
SPEAKER_00And those standards are things like being able to identify the noun in a sentence or being able to use punctuation in in an essay or um, you know, be able to read a word problem in math or whatever. So those are kind of what a standard is, right?
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00So with that, there's been a lot of work being done behind the scenes. I know this has been going on for over a year, many or probably even two years now, started probably right around the beginning of the pandemic. And that's kind of where the idea to transition Santa Fe Public Schools to standards-based teaching and learning came from, correct?
SPEAKER_01Correct. So during the pandemic, right after that first semester of teaching online and remotely, teachers were trying to cover all the material. And so we had to adjust how we were engaging kids online in their learning. And we realized that some kids were getting zeros in the grade book for not completing assignments, and we just took a step back to say, what do we need to do as educators to re-engage our students and also take behaviors out of the learning and just focus solely on the skills and uh provide more equity for our students? And so that work started, as I said, the first semester during the pandemic.
SPEAKER_00I think one of the things that I have been drawn most to about standards-based teaching and learning, and it's some people may have seen the standards-based teaching and learning video that we had put together earlier this year, I think we had done it, is this emphasis on just learning and not about completing assignments. And I know I've heard going to PDs and all these other things is that it's not about just doing the work. And I was in high school not too long ago. I've one of those people that definitely, you know, forgot to do the homework assignments. So I'd be like, hey, during passing time, can I copy off your homework just so I would get a grade? Correct. And I didn't learn anything during that. And I think that's really one of the big parts of standards-based learning, teaching and learning is not the compliance. Compliance, yes, or just doing the work. It's about actually learning the work. And I think that's really important to student growth and development because yes, you I could probably get all A's just doing the work. But at the end of the year, did I learn anything? And I think that's really where the big difference and transition is.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I think speaking for myself, I was one of those students, compliance, made sure I turned in all of my assignments. I wasn't very good in algebra, memorized things for tests, but I at the very end I had no idea what I learned.
SPEAKER_00Playing school is I think what David Holden always says, playing school.
SPEAKER_01I was good at playing school. And we don't want that for our kids. We really want them to understand what they're learning and why. And so that is why we're doing this transition to standards-based teaching and learning.
SPEAKER_00And being a student again, not too long ago, I graduated in 2012. So anyone that hears that and cringes, I apologize. I I couldn't tell you anything of why I was learning it. And there was no I it was I went into class. This is what we're learning today. I'm gonna show you how to do it. You're gonna go home, you're gonna do the homework, and then at some point in the next two weeks, we're gonna test you on it. Right. I not that I didn't care, but it was this I'm I'm just learning. This is what we're doing, this is what it is. There was no ownership of it.
SPEAKER_01Right. And that's what we want our kids to do, take ownership in their learning. I can say the same. It was complete these 50 problems and you turn that in and you got an A in algebra, but I never understood.
SPEAKER_00And some of it was you just did the assignment. It wasn't even if you did it right. You could have gotten all 50 problems wrong. Correct. It was oh, you did the assignment, you get an A. And you know, however, teachers weighted homework assignments, that could be 10 or 20%. So right there, you're you're already got a hundred in the twenty percent. You only got to get eighty percent in the rest of the class to get a hundred. Exactly. I think one of the biggest things with standards-based teaching and learning that parents will see is the grading scale is going to change. So we are going to transition away from an ABCDF grading system to one, two, three, four. Talk a little bit about what those numbers mean, and then we can go in a little bit more about all of that stuff.
SPEAKER_01Sure. So we are changing it to a proficiency scale. So a one is of course a student needing more support. Two, a student is nearing mastery of a skill. Three and four are students have mastered and are proficient at a skill. I do want to reiterate that in our high schools, these proficiency scales will will coincide with an A through F for transcripts and eligibility for colleges and sports.
SPEAKER_00So this isn't gonna screw up high school students about getting into college, scholarships, athletics, anything like that. I think the other thing that's really special about standards-based, and it's kind of what we had talked about before, is that in traditional grading, it's all about acquiring points, correct? About getting as many points as you can. You know, if you have 10 homework assignments worth 10 points, it's about acquiring a hundred points. Again, playing school. Right. Where in standards-based grading, or when you're using standards-based grading, it's about acquiring the skills. So you want to get threes and fours. And I think for me, I come from a competitive background. You want to get better. And oh, I'm a two. What do I need to do to get to a three? What do I need to get to a four? And again, speaking from my experience, if I wrote an essay and I got a B, I got a B. Very little notes, very little.
SPEAKER_01And that's what I want to say. Did you get good feedback on why you got that B or a 71%? The feedback for myself in traditional grading is your punctuation or just really general um feedback with standards-based grading. It's no look at your opening statement, or let's look at like how you lay this out on paper. And so the feedback is more specific.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01When a teacher understands the standard completely and the child understands exactly what they need to learn.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think with that more detailed feedback, it also allows students to break down what they're good at and what they're not good at. And I think too many kids, and even myself included, when I was in school, is okay, I gotta see in math. I'm not good at math. That is not true. There are things that you are good at and things you need to work on. And when you don't know what you're good at and what you're what you're not good at, you might spend time focusing or studying on the things you are good at and not elevating where you're not good at. So with standards-based grading, you will have a better idea of, oh, I'm a four at reading word problems, but I'm a one at some other standard. Now you know this is where I need to spend my time working. And then that way you're kind of rising all ships. This grade is really high at a four. I know that I need to do more work over here to bring this up to a four. So now instead of having a C, you have two fours because now you understand this is where I need to, it's more thorough.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And I also want to stress that this will also give students and teachers more opportunities to practice a skill to reach proficiency because you're getting that feedback and you're constantly working on skills that you need to develop. And so it's providing multiple opportunities to get a three or a four or to master a skill with standards-based instruction.
SPEAKER_00And it's not that there's been some confusion or people get confused, and even I got kind of got confused when when this was first brought to me because in in full transparency, Assistant Superintendent Hagley had reached out to me saying, Hey, can we shoot a video for standards-based teaching and learning? I didn't know what that is. I don't have an education background. I come from communications and cinematography. And so I called him on the my way to the first shoot, and I was like, what are we doing? What what is this about? And I think there's some maybe with the grading, the proficiency scale changing and the grade the way grades are going to be inputted, that this is lessening the learning. We're making it easier for kids to get better grades.
SPEAKER_01And that's not the case at all. It's about rigor, in fact. It's ensuring that every kid is um provided opportunities to learn at grade level standard. And so we are taking grade level standards for the learning. So it's more rigorous and a better understanding of the skills that students need in order to reach mastery of a grade level standard. It's also ensuring equity. We want all of our students exposed to grade level standards, whether they're an English language learner or they are a student with an IEP, which is an individualized education plan, if they're special ed, we are elevating the rigor for every subgroup.
SPEAKER_00And I think the other thing too is, and if anyone has seen the video that is on YouTube, I think it's called Standard-Based Um Learning at SFPS. I could be wrong, but if you go to the SFPS YouTube channel, you can find it. One of the things that I found really interesting from some teachers is that they are coming away from this transition as better teachers, having a better understanding of the standards. So in turn, if they understand the standards better, they're able to teach their students better and also be able to identify where their students need help instead of saying, oh, well, this student is struggling in ELA. Right. How do I help them? Oh, I'll give them another assignment or I'll give them this. With teachers better understanding the standards, they are able to identify where a student needs help because every student is different. What I may struggle with is something you may be really strong in. And teachers are able to say, okay, well, Vanessa needs this sort of type of support, and Cody needs this type of support. So it's also helping elevate teachers as well.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And I do want to say, I'm speaking for myself. I was a primary uh teacher and teaching reading, you give a reading grade. What does that mean? There's so many elements in reading, instruct um teaching and instruction. There's comprehension, there's decoding, there's phonemic awareness, there's all these elements. And so when you look at a standard deeply, you understand all these elements and you can identify, you know what, this child is really good at understanding a story when I read to them, but I I need a focus on the phonemic awareness or letter identification. So this really helps us hone in and truly understand the standards that we're teaching.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's all kind of you had mentioned about the equity, being able to bring all the students up at grade level standards, but also identify where their weaknesses are and help kind of bring them all up together, whether that's I can't even say the word, so I'm not even gonna try, but what is it, phonemic?
SPEAKER_01Phonemic awareness.
SPEAKER_00Phonemic awareness, wow, good for me. And that student might need that instead of teaching the whole class, hey, we're gonna work on phonemic awareness today, right when other students are like they don't know this at the time, but oh, I need help on decoding, right? But they're not getting the help that they need. Right only the students who need the phonemic awareness help are getting that assistance. So I I think that's one of the the big things about it too. I mean, earlier this year I knew nothing about standards-based teaching and learning, and I think I became one of the biggest advocates because it's something that I wish that I had when I was in school. Me too. Because there was just things that I could tell you I was a pretty much a B student A in some things, but I couldn't tell you what I was good at and what I was bad at. I mean, I could tell you, oh, I was pretty decent at math. I was all right at English, right, and I was okay at science.
SPEAKER_01Right. But how general is that? I was good at science, but what specifically in science? And that's what I'm saying for myself. We want our kids to really understand.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, or I would say, oh, well, I did really good in earth science, didn't do too good in biology, and was really bad at chemistry. So, okay, maybe a little bit more in detail, but still that doesn't tell me, okay, what about chemistry wasn't I good at? What about biology wasn't I good at? And maybe if I knew what I wasn't good at in those subjects, I could say, okay, well, I'm not good at identifying the parts of a cell. So I am going to spend my time learning the parts of a cell to elevate my knowledge in that area.
SPEAKER_01Right. And and we want to change that mindset to I'm not good at with standards-based teaching and learning. It's I haven't learned it yet. And taking away that language, I'm not good at. We want our students to believe that they have the capacity to learn anything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I forget what um the executive director of curriculum instruction, Peter McWayne, says he always he always asks people, you know, are you like, do you think you're not a math person? Oh, yeah, I'm not good at math. But you don't hear anyone say that about English. Oh, I'm not an English person or I'm not a Spanish person. I'm not a I'm not a language person. Right. It only seems to come up around math. And it's all about a mindset and this shift in mindset about it's not saying I can't do math, it's I need help in this area of math to make me better. Exactly. I get so excited talking about this because it's it's so exciting, and I really think it's going to elevate our students learning their ownership of what they're learning. And I think it will help parents help identify where their kids might need support.
SPEAKER_01It will. Um, this is an opportunity for better dialogue between a teacher and a parent or a parent and their child because parents are going to know exactly um what skills the kids are are working on and learning in class. So this is a great way to engage everybody in the learning.
SPEAKER_00And it's in writing too. And I think that's right, going back to kind of what we had talked about is I couldn't tell you a single standard that I learned in high school or middle school or elementary school. Where now I know there's some teachers who have the standards that they will be learning around the room. So they're saying we're learning, you know, EE 1106 or whatever. Right. And students will be able to read, okay, this is what the standard is. This is where I can focus my learning instead of being like, okay, I'm just gonna we're just gonna learn.
SPEAKER_01Right. An example is like I can compare and contrast two texts and create an argument or a persuasive essay. So it's m getting more specific to the learning.
SPEAKER_00The other thing too that I know that has been talked about a lot through this standards-based teaching and learning is removing the discipline or removing the behaviors, behaviors out of it. So um, you know, getting points deducted because I had my cell phone out or had my hood up or had a hat on and stuff like that. Because while it seems in that moment, in that individualized moment, it's not a big deal. But you know, those five or ten points that you deducted off of an assignment could be the difference between me getting a scholarship and me not getting a scholarship.
SPEAKER_01Right. Or between a B and a C.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we want to take the behaviors out of the learning. And I think that's super important. Um we hear stories about this all the time. I've had friends that I went to school with and they're like, Yeah, Vanessa, I ended up with a D in math because I didn't I couldn't afford a calculator or and that's that's just not right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And again, it keeps circling back to this equity, right? Making sure that we're not because every kid comes from a different background, has a different life experience. And so punishing them because of life experiences or traumas or anything that they've had in their life is inequitable. And now we're taking away opportunities and things from them in the future because they might be quote unquote misbehaving, or that's not the behavior that the teacher expects. And I won't share his story, but David Holden shared a very powerful story about behavior and how a student wasn't acting the way a teacher wanted in their class and was punished through the grading system because of it. And, you know, the student was, as he described, brilliant, knew all the materials, all everything, and did not receive an A because the behavior did not match the expectation of the teacher.
SPEAKER_01Correct. And we want to take all that out.
SPEAKER_00Is there anything else that we should we should be talking about about this? I know we've we've covered a lot of it. I'm looking through a lot of the materials that that we've gone through on this, and I think it's really exciting. Not all schools are participating in it. The pathway one schools that will be transitioning next year are Adelaidea, EJ Martinez, Chaparral, Amy Beal, Ortiz, Malagro, Nina Otero, El Camino, Carlos Gilbert, Wood Gormley, Salazar, Tisuke, and Eco, Early College Opportunities. So I think that's approximately half our schools will be making the transition next year.
SPEAKER_01To the grading.
SPEAKER_00To the grading. Exactly. Um and then the year after we get probably another 70% coming over. Um, and then there's a few in pathway three.
SPEAKER_01And so the focus is still on on standards and teaching and learning. Pathway one schools that you just mentioned will be implementing the grading.
SPEAKER_00So parents at those schools will see the proficiency scale one, two, three, three, four.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_00So to wrap up, um, normally ask our guests about the best piece of advice that a teacher uh has ever given them. We're gonna turn that a little bit upside down. And what do you think is the best piece of guidance that we can give to parents or staff about the district's transition to standards-based learning, teaching and learning?
SPEAKER_01I would say that standards, a focus on standards, raises the equity for all of our students, regardless of background. And that's the exciting thing.
